The Village Green

A blog about how Canadians can achieve energy independence by powering down and then powering up the right way.

Geothermal on a buck a day (or maybe even less)

In a recent Greenlivingonline poll asking readers about the renewable energy system they most dream about having in their home one day, 42% of respondents said, “geothermal heating”.   

Geothermal heating and cooling is quickly becoming the gold-standard of mechanical systems for Canadian homes.  Indeed the day will come when every property has been converted to ground source heat pump technology given its inherent efficiencies and technical advantages.    

Regularly we’re told by potential clients that they’d love to convert their home to a geothermal system but it’s prohibitively expensive (even though such a system costs less than most people spend on their cars, a depreciating liability if there ever was one).  So, today I thought I’d riff about how a typical Canadian family can realize their geothermal “dream”.  

When replacing your current systems becomes an “event”

As mechanical systems age – in this case, by mechanical systems I mean things like furnaces and air conditioning systems –their efficiency drops.  So while you may have  paid for these systems years ago in terms of their purchase price, their day-to-day operating costs continue to increase, in some cases, dramatically so (as our friend, Toronto realtor Chris Chopik likes to say, the cost of energy is the second price tag to your home).  

Eventually, aging systems need to be replaced.  They either become increasingly unreliable, they fail outright, or they become prohibitively expensive to operate. When we replace them, we’re presented with a decision – an “event” - and it’s at this time we can potentially realize our geothermal “dream”.  

Comparing costs 

Installing a high quality furnace and air conditioning system will cost you roughly $10,000.  We always want to buy high quality systems regardless of what we buy because you tend to get what you pay for.  

By comparison, a typical Canadian inner-city home will be looking at a planning cost of roughly $35,000 to install a geothermal system.  For reasons I’ll leave for another day, the cost of installing geothermal is much less in rural properties.  

We now have a delta - a difference - of $25,000 between our two options – the conventional furnace and air conditioning option and the geothermal option (and remember, geothermal provides both heating and cooling so you only need one “appliance” to do the job of two).

However, there’s more to consider.  

In Ontario, there’s $8,750 in combined federal and provincial grants available to every homeowner who installs a geothermal heat pump under the ecoENERGY Retrofit for Homes program.  Plus, there’s a RST rebate available for geothermal purchases which provides another rebate of roughly $1,000.  

Now we see the geothermal cost premium compared to our more conventional furnace and air conditioning options is down to around $15,000 to $16,000 which is roughly the cost of a used Honda Civic.  A Honda Civic is a fabulous car but most Canadian families wouldn’t consider it a luxury car.  Rather, they’d see it as a good, reliable, practical runabout.  Similarly, geothermal technology is no longer something only to be found in million dollar executive homes but in our homes.   

Geothermal on a buck a day or perhaps even less 

It’s an old sales trick to take the price of an expensive object and break it down to a cost-per-day over a long period of time leading to the claim, “just pennies a day”.  

In addition to being suspicious of sales gimmicks, I’m also not a fan of financing.  The typical Canadian family simply has way too much debt.  Yet, financing can make sense in some specific instances, particularly when the life of the asset is equal to or much greater than the term over which the loan is amortized.  This is one of those cases.

How much does $16,000 cost to finance over a conventional 5/25 (five year fixed rate, 25 year amortization term)?  At today’s rates (roughly 5.49%), it costs $97 per month.  Further, promotional rates are available including a 4.19% promotional rate from RBC (full disclosure, RBC is not a sponsor of mine, I merely found this on their web site), which would result in a monthly financing cost of $86.

We’re now down to a cost of about $2 - $3 dollars a day.  This is where the efficiency of geothermal really starts to kick in because we haven’t yet considered operating costs, the second price tag of your home.  

To keep the analysis simple, we’ve worked with clients whose monthly energy cost savings by installing geothermal were actually greater than the incremental cost of installing the system using calculations similar to those outlined above.  In other words, their geothermal system, far from costing them money, was actually generating cash for them: the savings were greater than the cost of installing the system.  

The above analysis does come with some assumptions.  It assumes “an event”, that being the required replacement of old systems and it assumes that the geothermal system can be financed on a mortgage.  

These conditions won’t apply for many people.  But they will apply for many others. By looking at our situation in the right light and doing the right analysis, a “dream” that seems unattainable becomes quite attainable for middle class families looking to protect their family budget and build long-term value in their homes.  

Gabriel Draven 

Village Technologies 

December 2009 


Comments

I am in a similar situation to some of the previous posters. We replaced an aging wood furnace with oil backup with a geothermal unit last september. Last week I received my first 'actual' hydro bill (we get these every three months). It was over $700. Our winter bills used to be around $180 per month. When I called hydro and read the meter to the guy he said we are already over $700 for the next month. I was told by the installer that the system would cost a bit more to run, but would be fairly energy effecient. I expected an increase but not like this. I would NEVER have purchased this system had I known the hydro bills would be so high.
"Geothermal"!!! Although I gather from the numerous comments, that this is an efficient form of heating and cooling. The operating costs appear to be outrageous when we compare standard electricity and gas alternatives. What is wrong with our society? We know that the world is depleting its gas and oil supplies yet we have opportunities to replace this with a range of efficient heating and cooling systems yet the cost of operating these are outside the realms of our communities. Supply and demand!!! Is this not the adage that plays a significant role in our pricing of consumer products? Surely the power of reason and sensibility can play a role in the free world. I am convinced that these products that are "efficient" to operate and reasonably priced on purchase due to government rebates, yet the ongoing charges do not support the average family whose final decision will be based on the cost of ongoing operation. I am actually lost for words. I am increasingly disappointed in the lack of integrity to monitor and care for our globe in a truly united manner.

John | Cavalok
Controlling these costs is mind boggling quite frankly. Gas bill Invoice Date Jan. 28, 2010 - Barrie ontario: Customer charge - 16.00 Delivery Charge - 35.16 Transportation to Enbridge - 29.06 I cannot control these charges. Sometimes the "delivery charge" is 7.00!? Hydro bill Dated January 7, 2010 - Barrie, ON Delivery Charge - 32.44 Regulatory charge - 4.34 Debt Retirement Charge - 4.42 Prov. Benefit 667.71kWh@0.03644493 - 24.33 In both cases I haven't even gotten to what I actually consumed and have to pay for. That Prov. Benefit thing is very irritating too. It's a greater amount than I used in kWh and is a charge based on more things I can't control. I had hoped that geothermal would take me off the grid as far as gas heating was concerned - no more gas bills and it would but now there seems to be this hydro concern. soooo much to learn...............
I recently moved into a house that is 3000 sq feet and has a geothermal heating system. We had it serviced to ensure it is running properly. I was told it is extremely efficient. Well, my hydro bills for the last 3 months have ranged from $500 to $850 per month. I came from a 3000 sq foot house with forced air and NEVER had a bill that high. Can anyone explain to me what I'm doing wrong to have a bill that high or if anyone has had the same experience?
How do you set your thermostat on a 24 hour heating cycle during the day-and overnight on weekdays -- and on saturdays and sundays.
....... Could the change of setting of your "Thermostat" contribute (partly) to your larger hydro bill ?
How much heat are you getting for your dollar? A Geothermal Unit generates about 3,000 BTU at 500% efficiency. This translates per $ 1.00 spent to about 170,650 BTU. ( hydro cost $0,10 KWH).-----A OIL Furnace generates about 36,000 BTU at 68% efficiency. $ 1,00 spent equals about 27,000 BTU($ 0.90 L).-----A Propane Unit generates about 25,000 BTU at 90% efficiency. $ 1.00 spent equals about 34,000 BTU($ 0,53 L).-----A natural gas furnace generates about 35,000BTU at 90% efficiency. $ 1.00 equals about 54,000 BTU($ 0,42 per cubic meter. WAIT a minute, I am paying $ 0,25 per m3. MY question is, does this translate of up to 70% of energy--savings. Maybe I am wrong here.
My husband and I purchased a 5 ton geothermal in ground heat pump, December is the 1st full month we used it to heat our home and I just recieved my hydro bill and I have seen a dramatic increase in our hydro bill from using electric baseboards. I was under the impression that the unit was going to save on our hydro bill? the price of power has not (surprisingly) gone up in the last month. Since last year this time we have, purchased new front load energy efficient washer and dryer, new energy efficient stove and microwave, gotten rid of old wood furnace and gotten rid of all baseboard heaters, and installed the new energy efficient light bulbs, finnished our basement and insullated it, installed new basement windows and doors. All the energy efficent stuff we have purchsed, our hydro bill seems to be going up and up....Is it even worth it? Hydro bill is $200 more this month than 2 months ago..feeling like I been ripped off.
I am doing a project on alternative energy sources and geothermal energy is one source that interests me the most. I need data that compares geothermal energy and other present day energy sources. If anyone has any data on comparing geothermal that would be very helpful to me :) you can e-mail it to me at cyana.rouleau@hotmail.com Thank-You
-- Why don't we discuss this openly? -- many other Homeowners including myself are eager to learn -- what the real COST of running a GEOTHERMAL system is. -- After all, this is a public Forum.
I power a 1400 sq.ft home with $900.00 of natural gas and $500.00 of electricity a year. How can i justify installing a geothermal heat pump.
Not now... you will not get back your investment.... We market geothermal heap pump mainly to poeple with 2000+ square feet location. 2 question maybe change my answer : 1-Do you have a lot of land to instal a horizontal heat collector ? its one third of the price. 2- What are the grants available in your area ? Also you may consider hybrid system . Jean-Philippe Boreal Geothermal
Hey Alain, if you have a small, efficient home, count yourself fortunate. Geothermal for you might be overkill to the extreme. My personal goal quite frankly is to build a small-ish house - about 1200 square feet, and design it in a highly passive manner and then use heating technology like some of the new ultra-high efficiency wood burning or pellet burning stoves. I really like things like masonry heaters as well. I'd also put in solar water heating. I'd also augment cooling and ventilation by using some really well designed ceiling fans and looking at natural ventilation. Gabriel
> Hi to all readers, > > I am interested to learn more about the energy-saving "GEOTHERMAL System" in a single family home > for the closing Year of 2009. > >Location of your Home/City-Township. >single/ two Storey. > less then 10 Years of age or older. > squ.ft. of your home. > source of energy used prior to switching to GEOTHERMAL. > Source of energy used for waterheater. > Cost of Hydro to run the GEOTHERMAL System. > > Thank you for your replies.
> The Hydro Bills for DECEMBER 2009 should have arrived in all our Mailboxes by now.(Jan.09/2010). > > please let us know, what your actual HYDRO-cost was to operate your GEOTHERMAL-UNIT . > > Thanks again for your replies.
Very interesting article! I'm curious where you got your prices for geothermal in a residential area, since my searches where they have to dig straight down showed much higher prices. Also, I don't know where you got your prices for furnaces. With some deal searching and negotiating, I just bought a new top-of-the-line condensing furnace *and* condensing water heater (much better than tankless imho) as a package for a total $7500... and then had a couple thousand in rebates to make it even cheaper. We didn't need to finance it, and we estimate that the energy savings will have a simple payback of 5 years.
The whole article is misleading, from the title onwards. It should have been titled A Buck A Day More, since it didn't take into account at all the initial estimated $10K furnace cost. I'd suggest to the person who wrote about their geothermal woes to contact another geothermal installer, or else a top electrician to check out the wiring circuits and pump installation, model and style as there seems to be something wrong here. It just shouldn't cost that much. Please, Green Living, don't start publishing articles like this that only tell half the story. The credibility of the green movement has been tarnished badly by this kind of behaviour on the past. It's critical that we don't give the naysayers more ammunition.
Marilyn, in the entry i think i make it quite clear that the initial $10K furnace cost is what can be considered the "base case". That is, you have to pay that anyway. That's the "do nothing" option. The geothermal premium is what i am attempting to cost-justify. I agree with you that there's a lot of crap out there and lot of businesses trying to make a quick buck justifying the unjustifiable. I think if you read any of my other entries over the past months you will find a consistent theme in which I express skepticism over much of what passes for common business practice. I stand by my analysis in this article. - Gabriel
And what about grants for those of us that don't live in Ontario?
Thank you for the article. It is very informative. To the person who is using geothermal and is paying $600 for natural gas, you should consider using tankless water heating. It is so much better. We use Navien tankless heaters that have 98% efficiency and our natural gas bill has gone down to 1/3 of what it was. I am looking in to geothermal as well and have a 4000 sq ft bungalow. We will need 2 geothermal units (4-5 tons each). currently we use conventional system and only heat or cool one side of the house i.e. our 4000 sq ft is split into lets say 2000sq ft bedrooms and 2000 sq ft of living area. In winter months we have our thermostats at 70 F throughout the day and at night we turn down the living area temperature to 66F to conserve energy. In the mornings, it is back to 70F. From what I understand using geothermal, if I do that, the geothermal system will take a few hours to come up from 66 to 70. Is this true? For people who currently have geothermal units for their homes, do you turn the heating down when you go to work or when you are out for more then 4-5 hrs? thanks
...........These are all valid questions. Why don't "Geothermal Dealers/Installers" chime in here and and answer the questIons concerning lowering the thermostat day or bedtime to everybody's satisfaction. After all, this is their Business.
Today I recieved a QUOTE from a Retailer / Installer for a Navien tankless water-heater (98% efficiency). Cost for the Unit including Installation would be $3000.00. I have a 30 Gallon waterheater, electric power. My total monthly Hydro Bill is $120.00. I use Natural gas for heating the house. The sales rep. explained, the savings would be $200 a year (14% Year) with natural gas. I decided to keep my 30 Gallon water heater. The retailer favours the Navien Unit for ease of installation and reliability. He explained, a $603 government grant is available in Ontario///.
Last year my husband and I purchased a newer home with Geothermal heating. I was totally sold on the environmental benefits and was extremely happy to purchasing a home in a geothermal community in the Ottawa area. Much to my surprise, while geothermal heating is a very environmentally friendly heating and cooling system, it is very expensive to operate on a monthly basis since hydro is used to operate the pump to push the water through the system. As a comparison, our previous home (approx. 1,900 sq. ft.) cost around $1,000 annually for natural gas and around $1,000 annually for hydro. Our current home with geothermal heating (approx. 2,400 sq. ft) costs around $600 annually for natural gas (to heat hot water and for fireplace) also, most of this cost is for the rental of the hot water tank, and around 3,800 for hydro. I have continually contacted Ottawa Hydro to see how we can reduce our hydro consumption. We have purchased all new energy efficient applicance, we use compact flourescent bulbs everywhere and I set the delay timer to run both the washing machine and dishwasher during the middle of the night on off-peak hours. From what I can tell, the only way to further reduce our hydro consumption would be to spend around $40,000 to install solar panels on our roof and power our heat pump this way.
There are a lot of other factors which have an influence on your new house's power costs. Was the weather the same this year as it was in your old house last year? Did your old house have air conditoning? Is the insulation and windows as good in this house as the last one? I see that a lot of comparisons between geothermal and gas take into account the rental of a hot water tank. What is this for? Why don't you just purchase your own hot water heater?

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